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Simon Matthews's avatar

Thanks Ryan. I also found this very interesting. I’m looking forward to your foreshadowed future post on whether algorithmic approaches can give us definitive answers to the questions we have that are as reliable as knowledge. I’d particularly like to understand what you mean by knowledge in that context, as it seems to me that algorithmic approaches do provides us with some (perhaps the best) form of knowledge that we can use to effect beneficial outcomes for ourselves and others. For example, while reading this I couldn’t help wondering what’s wrong with getting an answer from a website about the best insurance policy or gadget to buy if you have a clear set of criteria by which you want to make your decision (price, features, availability etc). In those cases the algorithm is guaranteed to find the solution to your problem by identifying the cheapest and best featured (for you) available policy or gadget. What would be a better method for deciding? (In asking this, I’m outing myself as one of those readers you referred to in your previous post as finding algorithmic approaches to solving problems as intuitive and natural.) More specifically, how, in practice, would “human skill, ability or insight” be better applied in such cases given the inherent subjectivity — and often unreliability — of such attributes? Even the election question could in fact be usefully solved for you by an algorithm if you happened to have simple criteria by which you wanted to make your decision (e.g. which party has the policy that would increase my after-tax income). Algorithms can’t help in decision making if you’re unable to articulate a set of criteria by which you intend to make the decision, but I suspect there is some kind of checklist process going on in our brain for most complex decisions we make, even though we might not admit to it (for sound evolutionary reasons we automatically look for certain criteria in, say, prospective mates even if we can’t articulate them). In deciding whether to marry someone, for example, maybe an effective algorithmic approach is often applied sub-consciously along the lines of answering just a few simple questions like: “Do I want to get married now? Do I want to marry this particular person [which might be broken down into other questions relating to feelings of love, trust, respect, etc)]? Do they want to marry me? Are there any reasons not to marry them [again, this could be broken down into things like current marital status, criminal history, parental disapproval, etc]?” I wonder what a better way to make the decision would be. I suppose you could toss a coin, or consult an astrologer, or ask someone else to make the decision for you, but most of us don’t make significant decisions in that way.

Also, I didn’t understand how there can be “a dominant cultural mindset … that presumes we can control the world” if, as you suggest, it may well be a mindset held by only a minority of the population. In any case, I’m not convinced that there is a dominant cultural mindset that we can control the world and I think most people (operating well within the Overton Window) would agree that the unpredictability and potential influence of human agents (presidents of Russia, say) inevitably rules out orderly control of human affairs, and that controlling complex systems operating in the world like weather and climate is now and always will be just a pipe dream (my understanding is that chaos theory would preclude this in any case). However, I wouldn’t be surprised if most people believe that we (i.e. humanity) have a fair amount of control. Indeed history demonstrates that we have been able to exert a great deal of influence (albeit not absolute control) over things that we care about that can affect our experience of the world (having enough food to eat, improving our health, minimising non-consensual encounters with sharp-toothed animals, etc). And we have got there often because we have rightly trusted the science and we have wisely listened to the experts applying the right techniques. I expect that as our technology and knowledge improves, we will have more and more influence over the world and our experience in it, while always falling short of absolute control. Personally I wasn’t angry or furious about corona virus, nor was I particularly surprised by the outbreak of a pandemic, but I was reasonably confident that (as in fact happened — and surprisingly quickly) science would employ data and facts to find a way to significantly minimise its harm (while not gaining complete control). Is that what you mean by possessing epistemic confidence?

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Sean I's avatar

Fascinating as always.

Is there merit in exploring the difference between gaining and having knowledge and using knowledge? Even if you believe the world is knowable in theory, few would argue that it is known today. This leads me to wonder whether there is a form of certainty / uncertainty boundary or frontier individuals and society is constantly navigating, which necessarily requires responses to point in time unknowability.

I wonder also whether the above becomes important as we consider the role of algorithmic approaches. One use of algorithms is to predictably manage the certainty / uncertainty boundary by creating decision making rules (a heuristic). In essence these rules are designed for the many (the average) but are often applied to the one (the individual). Mistakes are inevitable - both systemic (bias - defined broadly) and random. The alternative, however, individualised decision making based on experience and judgement has the same problem (see Kahneman et al Noise).

Not sure where any of this leaves us of course.

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